In the Race

I hear what you are saying about your concern of interns, however, I think I can add some additional info.  

I myself was an intern.  This was 10 years ago, so some things may have changed, but interns are considered a step above regular student teachers.  They are usually in the final year of college having earned all but the semester of student teaching credits.  

Interns are at the top of the class GPA wise and in the area of experience.  (When I use the word experience I refer to the intern applicant's experience working with kids.  Believe it or not, some people in the final year of earning their Education degree have never worked at a daycare, camp, Sunday School or anything.  This kind of experience is valuable in the area of classroom management and factors into whether someone is ready to be in charge of a class or not.)

The intern candidates are hand picked by the intern coordinator at the college to apply to be interns. That's right, after they are selected to be able to apply for an internship, they still have to get it.  For me that meant preparing a resume, references and going through a rigorous interview process at the school.  The school has a right to accept or deny the intern based on their impression.

Basically the interns are screened and hand picked as the best of the class and the most prepared to step into a classroom and be ready to go.  

In my intern experience I was monitored.  I had my lesson plans checked, I was observed and evaluated by both my cooperating teacher and by my college supervisor.  The difference is that I started on day one.  Most student teachers sit and observe for weeks before getting up in front of the class.  Also, the cooperating teacher did not have to be in the room at all times and she was free to be the reading specialist at the school for 1/2 of the day, the part of the day that I was responsible for teaching the subject matter.  

Ultimatley, the intern gets to earn some cash rather then going poor for a whole semester working for nothing.  The school gets to free up a teacher for portions of the day to assume other responsibilities and it only costs them a few thousand dollars with no benefits.  

One last thing, when I interned, I had to apply and receive a State DPI Intern License.  

I typed this really fast, hopefully it makes sense and provides a bit more info.

Karen,

You explained the Intern qualifications and experience perfectly.  Thank you.

Our HR Director did give a couple lines of explanation at the meeting to cite the difference between an intern and a student teacher.

It isn't that I have a problem with interns.  I think they are valuable, and they have to gain experience, of course.  And Franklin has been using interns for many years, according to Board member Sue Huhn.  Board member Jeff Traylor delved further into the topic, between interns and student teachers...and the impression I got, and it is only my impression, is that it was for reasons of cost savings.  He didn't mention anything about hiring an intern for his/her benefit or for the benefit of the children.

A larger class because there is an intern...that means if there are two interns at Ben Franklin...with larger classes...that is a possible savings of another class being created and another teacher being hired.

So the question is, do taxpayers want to save money by having one less teacher/class (having two interns for $16,000) or cut funding in some other area?  I think I know what most parents of the students in these classrooms would say. One of them is a new Board member who I was sitting next to in the audience.

It's a tough call.  And I guess it doesn't matter because the decision looks like it is made already anyway.  

One last question would be, are any of these intern classes larger in size because of Chapter 220 or OE?  (That would have to be looked in to since HR doesn't give hand outs to everyone at the meeting).

I have never heard of a school using interns to have larger class sizes that to me seems like a bad decision.  You have a valid question reagrding the 220 and open enrollment students.

Of all the people I know that have interned or schools that have interns, the main use is to allow the teacher to work elsewhere in the school for part of the day, for example as the computer education teacher, reading specialist, or P.E. Teacher.  

Of course I am talking about private schools who in my opinion are much more creative when it comes to using resources at little to no cost.

David Works “I know there are varying opinions on the intern concept.  I for one am not in favor of it and I know there are other parents who won’t be. Not just because my daughter will be affected by this directly, but as a Board member also.  Obviously three classrooms are going to be better than two classrooms and an intern.  I know there are going to be objections to that.  Me included.”

A positive description from Dr. Patz regarding interns followed stating they are highly qualified people who are recommended, but he understands a parent's perspective.

David Works  “It’s nothing against them, it’s the fact that the classroom sizes for that grade are going to be high, it’s going to be 28.5 and the dynamics change quite a bit.”

Judy Mueller  "Correct."

David Works I’m just saying, be ready for some objections on that."

(A one line statement made by Sue Huhn to Judy Mueller where only the word "budget" could be heard).

Sue Huhn "Have we ever had any complaints on the interns?"

Judy Mueller "No, I haven’t."

Sue Huhn  "We’ve been using interns for the entire time I’ve been on the Board and I’ve never heard hide nor hair from anybody that they were not as good as a classroom teacher."

Judy Mueller  "An intern goes through the same interview process."

David Works “You’re not saying they preferred that option.  You’re saying that they didn’t have an objection to the intern.”

Judy Mueller “Correct, correct, and I understand what you are saying.  As a parent would I rather have my child in a smaller class with a fully certified  teacher or a in a larger class with an intern who takes them out. I understand what you are saying.  We are within class size range, that class could be up to 30, so we are within the range and we do this because we’re sensitive to as you get to the high end of the range it is getting more challenging so we want the teachers to have that extra support.  But you know, the class sizes right now....sometimes there are times you certainly would like to provide a teacher for every classroom that was on the high end of the range, we just simply couldn’t afford it.”

________

From my notes...10 K5 OE/220 and 18 Grade 1  but the school placement wasn't stated (Ben Franklin and Country Dale have the interns).

Janet and Karen

My daughter and son have both been in "split classes" meaning 3rd and 4th grade mix or something to that effect. It is due to wanting to keep class size down to a manageable amount. There are times when there may be two 3rd grade classes of 28 with 8 student more. Instead of a third class they combine two grades together.

In my daughters case, they had a student teacher in the classroom to work with the other grade while the teacher taught the other grade math, science,spelling or what ever subject at the other part of the classes grade level.

In my sons case, the teacher opted for doing it all herself.

Either way, the children were selected to be in the split class because they were know to be able to work without supervision or behavior problems.

Personally, the intern option sounds just as good as a student teacher as far as ability to teach.

Bryan,

The intern option is better than a student teacher.  And, student teachers really weren't in question, except by Jeff Traylor, because they would not be able to be unsupervised.

But you admit your children were "selected" because they are able to work without supervision and don't have behavior problems."  That means you have great kids.  I happened to have had kids in the gifted and talented program.  Actually, from the beginning, when the program first started back in the elementary schools.  Sometimes, when you have kids that can work without supervision and don't have behavior problems...they get the short end of the stick, don't you think?

I remember I used to have to "beg" for work for my son because he was so bored.

Exactly what does "unsupervised" in elementary school mean? 

Oh boy - just a few of my nerves were struck by what I have just read!

My gifted and talented child is currently a 6th grader at Country Dale with an intern because of the large class sizes.  There are 2 6th grade classes (one has 30 students and the other has 31).  I have been impressed with the interns - there has been 2. One for each semester - and in fact, from a personal perspective they have been great and will make wonderful teachers.  But don't let this fool you - they are BAND- AIDS for large class sizes.   Where do I start - there is obvious ramp up time when the intern changes mid- year.  They only have a smaller group of the kids in the afternoon.  My son is STILL in his large group of 30 kids for Math and LAnguage Arts. Doesn't that count?

And to stay that kids can work without supervision is a reason to "select" them for sa split class or be a part of a BAND-AID resolution is certainly getting the short end of the stick.

Last year Country Dale was the victim of a 5/6 grade split that went horrendously from everyone's perspectives and this year's resolution of an intern , I guess was a bit better - but yes, my son certainly could be challenged and benefit more from 3 classes of appropriate size.

Need an idea of where to cut some salary costs...? How about the 1.5 FTE in the GT program? 3 years later and I am still struggling to determine what the GT Coordinator at each school location and Tracy Donich really does to impact these kids.....

Franklin Parent of 3...long time no see...

Well...A complaint!  And guess what...there will be a split class again at Country Dale next year because, according to Judy Mueller, it's going well.

While I don't have students in school any longer, but I'm with you.

My question is, have you, or anyone you know, voice your opinion to the Administration?  Because they indicated they have not received one complaint - ever.

If not...I think it's time some opinions are given - even if they are just opinions and not complaints.

Janet- I have been reading - but keeping quiet for the most part!

If by "Administration" you mean Dr. Patz, School Board or Judy Mueller...No - I havn't.  I have had many conversations with our building principal.  

When you say next year there will be a split - do you mean a grade split where 2 different grades are combined or do you mean the use of an intern to help manage large class sizes?

If given those two "bad" choices.. I would choose the lesser of 2 evils being the intern over the split class of 2 grade levels.

Class size has to be of the utmost importance, right next to teacher performance, when it comes to student achievement!

FP3...by Administration I meant first Principal, then Dr. Patz, then Board...up the ladder if you don't get resolution.  Obviously your comments haven't been moving up the ladder from your building principal on their own (hmmm).

Judy Mueller regarding 08-09 school year at Country Dale “It works very well to have a split class for 5th and 6th grade.”

She said that indicating there will be a split class next school year at Country Dale.

Also, she indicated that there will be two second grades and one intern due to large class size.

calling Judy Mueller tomorrow...........very interesting!

FYI...all quotes are exactly that.

Janet

Part of this is how it is presented. In my daughters case, we were told days before the beginning of school by the Principal of Pleasant View. With little or no explanation of how it would be managed. We were given an option to voice disagreement.

In my sons case, the principal of Robinwood (Tom Reinke) ,the teacher (Mrs. Weinstein), all worked with us in explaining how they planned on working the split class. We also had an option to opt out and were told about the split class much earlier. A far better way of handling a tough situation.

She was also one of my son's favorite teachers.

By the way, you mentioned that David Works has been attending these meetings but nothing about Linda Witkowski.

Bryan,

That's interesting that you had the choice to opt out and that you were informed.  This sounds like a totally different sitiatuion than is going on at Country Dale and Ben Franklin.  There would not be any place to opt out to.... there are no other class rooms/teachers.  Thanks for this info.

Yes, Linda Witkowski attended both meetings, along with Dave, since she has been elected.  I believe I mentioned at the last meeting I reported on that she was questioned about her budget knowledge.  At this meeting she did not have any input, but it was not a regular meeting.

Bryan,

That's interesting that you had the choice to opt out and that you were informed.  This sounds like a totally different situation than is going on at Country Dale and Ben Franklin.  There would not be any place to opt out to.... there are no other class rooms/teachers.  Thanks for this info.

Yes, Linda Witkowski attended both meetings, along with Dave, since she has been elected.  I believe I mentioned at the last meeting I reported on that she was questioned about her budget knowledge.  At this meeting she did not have any input, but it was not a regular meeting.

At Pleasant View we felt more like we were being told (strongly encouraged) than at Robinwood.

Is there a special dispensation of meeting rules to allow David and Linda to speak at these meetings or do they just speak at the citizens comment time?

At a regular meeting it looks like it is a courtesy being made...since they are technically Board members I guess the Board is allowed to ask them or anyone else they choose questions.

At a committee meeting I am still not sure how it works. When called upon - they answer. When it is asked, "Are there any questions?" Then they speak up or comment, along with Randy Ritter, that time. I am still not clear if "anyone" is allowed to speak up at committee meeting or not. I am going to find that out though (if the general public can give input).

I attended the regular school board meeting last night and have a short report. Basically, it was a repeat

06/04/08 Budget Draft

Franklin School Board 06/04/08 Committee of the Whole