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This Just In...

Kevin Fischer is an award-winning veteran broadcaster who has been seen and heard on Milwaukee TV and radio stations for nearly three decades.
Kevin, who is a legislative aide to state Sen. Mary Lazich (R-New Berlin), can be seen offering his views on the news on the public affairs program, “InterCHANGE,” on Milwaukee Public Television Channel 10, and heard filling in on Newstalk 1130 WISN. He lives with his wife, Jennifer, and their baby daughter, Kyla Audrey, in Franklin.

Greenfield delays action on sex offender ordinance

By Kevin Fischer
Monday, Sep 15 2008, 09:48 PM

The Greenfield Common Council’s Legislative Committee took no action at its meeting tonight on a proposed Franklin-like sex offender ordinance that restricts where released sex offenders can live or congregate. A final draft of the ordinance has not been prepared, but committee members suggested a vote would be taken at their next meeting next month.

Nine Greenfield residents spoke before the committee, all in favor of the proposal.

Karen Koterman said it was shocking and ridiculous that “we’re even discussing this,” and that “society cares more about criminals.” With Franklin, Greendale and other communities having already approved restrictive ordinances, Koterman said Greenfield stands to become “a dumping ground” if the city rejects the proposal.

“This floors me,” Koterman said that approval hasn’t happened yet.

Nina Kohl said, “I strongly support this ordinance,” calling sex offenders, “the scum of the earth.”

A new father, Jacob Lovo called the proposal, “a good idea, a necessity. I want my family safe.”

Lovo’s wife, Jean Lovo said sex offenders made bad choices and must suffer the consequences.

One of the first speakers, an angry John Butschli told the committee he lives two doors down from a man who was convicted in the early 90’s of 1st degree sexual assaultof a child. He has contacted local police at least a dozen times after seeing the offender watching children play at a nearby school. Butschli said police have told him the offender can hand out candy on Halloween.

Butschli wanted to know if the proposed ordinance would apply to his neighbor. Committee chair, Alderman Shirley Saryan responded that the committee “doesn’t have to answer questions.” That drew some groans from the audience, and deservedly so; not a good move for the chair of a committee to say at a public meeting that the politicians don’t have to  provide answers to concerned citizens.

Franklin Alderman Steve Olson was asked how Franklin’s ordinance handles a situation like the one presented by Butschli. Olson said Franklin’s ordinances grandfathered offenders who had been convicted prior to the ordinances taking effect out of fairness and to limit constitutional challenges to the ordinances.

Greenfield Alderman Tom Pietrowksi asked Butschli whether the victim of the sex offender that lives near him was a boy or girl. Pietrowski’s question drew howls from the audience who spoke out, “What difference does it make.” Pietrowski, who’s not shy about expressing his concerns for the sex offenders, responded that it matters because the sex of the victims affects recidivism rates.

Matt Rajala, another citizen in support, noted other communities have taken the lead on this issue but he admitted he’s nervous about the ordinance’s prospects in Greenfield. Rajala is right to feel apprehensive, based on what was said at tonight’s meeting.

Alderman Pietrowski said, “The problem I see,” is that the proposed ordinance is “curbing where an individual can live,” and that society is,” taking away freedoms.”

Maybe Alderman Pietrowski should focus on what a sex offender has stolen from a young child victim. Pietrowski, I would venture to guess, is solidly opposed to this ordinance based on comments he’s made publicly at two consecutive meetings. Good luck running for re-election on a pro-sex offender vote.

Jerry Bubb responded to Pietrowski’s comments saying, “People have rights, but I’d rather let a murderer go free before a predator” because the murderer can be rehabilitated whereas the predator can’t. “Franklin is setting up an opportunity” for Greenfield said Bubb in support of the ordinance.

Alderman Linda Lubotsky, the author of the proposed ordinance said, “It’s our (Greenfield’s) turn."

Despite the unanimous support in the audience, Pietrowski asked that the matter be held over for one more Legislative Committee meeting. The committee agreed.

A final note: As I was leaving the meeting and waved goodbye to committee members and thanking them for having their discussion, Alderman Saryan made it a point to tell me publicly from her committee chair position that, “Just because I ask questions” doesn’t mean that I’ve taken a position one way or the other. In a recent blog on this issue, I wrote, “Greenfield Alderman Shirley Saryan doesn’t sound too promising when she admits she’s confused by Franklin’s ordinances.” During tonight’s meeting, Saryan noted she reads my blog. I appreciate that, Alderman.

But there comes a time when you can’t sit on the fence and must take a position and vote.

I’ve covered politics as a reporter and/or worked in politics for over 30 years. I know every form of politician-speak there is. I think Alderman Saryan is a pleasant, well-intentioned person. But here are public comments made by Alderman Saryan the past two meetings that she chairs:

Tonight, she told a Greenfield resident who had questions about a map showing where the exclusion zones would be for released offenders that, “As you can see, there aren’t many places they can live.” My response would be: So!

She also said tonight that restrictive ordinances can make matters worse. Where did she read that? On my blog, in comments made by sex offender sympathizers from out of state. Ask parents of children how these ordinances can “make matters worse,” and see what they have to say.

If you’re for the ordinance, then say so, Alderman! All those questions and concerns of hers lead me to believe she’s leaning against. I hope I'm wrong.

As one Greenfield resident said emphatically, why are we even talking about this? It does seem to be a no-brainer, to everyone except the Legislative Committee of the Greenfield Common Council.

This issue is growing. More and more people in Greenfield are becoming aware of what’s at stake. The delay gives residents even more time to contact their elected officials to make their voices heard on behalf of our most vulnerable citizens and prized commodity: our children.

Comments

MSLGW   

Recidivism for first time sex offenders are in the single digits. 95% of all first time sex offenders NEVER repeat a sex crime and that without treatment.

60 million Americans have experienced child sexual abuse with 50% or 30 million to go on to abuse children. My point is, the much larger threat to your children resides in your own family and friends.

In fact, non-sex offenders released from prison are 4 times more likely to commit a sex crime than a sex offender being released.

I can back this up with studies.

US Department of Justice, 2003

www.ojp.usdoj.gov/.../rsorp94pr.htm

• Sample size – 9,700 sex offenders

• Length of time – 3 years

• Re-offense trigger – reconviction (Doesn't mean a new sex crime)

• Results – 5.3% sexual offence. 3.3% child molestation.

Arizona, Department of Corrections, 2006

www.azcorrections.gov/.../Fact%20Sheet%2098-06.htm

• Length of time – Ten years

• Sample size – 2,444 sex offenders

• Results – 3.2% returned for a new felony sex offense, 1.4% returned for a new felony case of child molestation

• Reoffense trigger – new conviction (Any conviction)

* Michigan - (2000 - Page 184) www.michigan.gov/.../Stat2000_51449_7.pdf

Michigan, Department of corrections, 2000

www.michigan.gov/.../Stat2000_51449_7.pdf

• Length of time – Ten Years

• Sample size – 70,989 offenders

• Results: 2.46% for sex offense, 6.11% counting technical violations.

The fact of the matter is: Residency restrictions "Don't work.

I have many articles and facts on everything you want to know. There is NOT ONE study ever, anywhere that says these restrictions prevent crime. In fact every study by professionals all say the same thing. They "Do More Harm than Good."

September 16, 2008 5:58 PM

Lizzie   

I hesitated commenting on this, as I am a mother of one of the pariah's and subsequently of no worth, at least according to some. I take my 4-year-old granddaughter to visit her 21-year-old daddy in prison twice a month (I'll leave the math to those more intelligent than I). Her daddy's sister lives in Greenfield - guess who will be visiting Greenfield in spite of any residency restrictions?  Scary, hey? My son's girlfriend lives in another county.  I don't know how residency restrictions would have helped here, either.  Scary, hey?  While you're watching those on the internet/registry, chances are an uncle or friend is molesting your child in your own home.  Would residency restrictions be helpful here?  Scary, hey?  Over 90% of the people on this Scarlet Letter registry will NEVER commit another sex crime, which corresponds with the 90% figure for all new sex offenses being perpetrated by someone not on the registry each year.  Pretty soon this registry is going to number over 1M people.  Scary, hey?  Maybe they should all die, the scum.  It doesn't matter that I love my son.  My granddaughter sure dotes on her daddy.  My 3 daughters love their brother, one even considers him her hero (silly girl thinks he's been treated unfairly).  My youngest son never turns down an opportunity to visit his older bro.  His aunts and uncles adore him, too.  Ditto for the cousins.  Oh, and his tons of high school friends (silly teenagers think he got the shaft - must not have gotten the scum memo).  This scum will never be able to go to a movie, a hotel with a pool, his child's soccer game, to a teacher-parent conference, or work in his chosen field.  And you want to take away a fundamental roof over his head, too?  I think I see monsters...and they're not in any prison!  Education is the key - not further punishment!  Stop using the monster scare tactics, please...more and more people are being affected by this and they're getting mad enough not to take it any more! Take away the registry and the unfounded fears it brings, or at least limit it to actual predatory pedophiles.  Every lawmaker should recuse themselves if they even got to second base in their teenage years (scum of the earth molesters!), lest they be accused of hypocrisy and cast that first stone.  

September 16, 2008 10:28 PM

Lizzie   

I wanted to include a link to Muskego's same dilemma.  It seems law enforcement agrees about the bogus nature of residency restrictions, as in our own Sally Tess with the Wisconsin Probation and Patrol Dept.  Read the facts:  www.mymuskegonow.com/.../index.aspx.

Why don't you pass laws that are smart for a change and actually DO something rather than based on irrational fear and hateful emotion?

September 16, 2008 10:33 PM

Arika   

It really doesn't matter what recidivism rates are if the ordinance won't affect them.

If the Council is really, truly as interested in protecting the public from sex offenders, they ought to be asking for input from nationally respected victim advocacy groups like the Jacob Wetterling Foundation, the Coalition Against Sexual Assault, and others.  They'd be more than willing to give the council their opinion.  In fact, a simple Google search will reveal their writings on the issue.

They will tell the council to vote NO on residency restrictions.  They asked the Ohio Supreme Court to STRIKE DOWN the state's residency laws.  They have written position papers outlining how residency restrictions do NOTHING to protect children, and actually INCREASE the danger to children.  Their position is supported by Corrections departments nationwide, as well as educated law enforcement organizations.

Of course, parents and council members are free to enact policies that endanger children.  Votes are of pressing concern, I'm sure.  And it must be far more important to ensure parents "feel" safe, even if it means endangering the children.

September 16, 2008 10:50 PM

Magister   

Karen Koterman, it is not that society cares more about criminals.  It is that Society must choose the best and wisest course to ensure the safety of it citizens.   This is a clear cut case of it not being wise to hit someone on the toe to cure a headache.  

As for Greenfield becoming a “dumping ground” what about the areas of Greenfield that will be outside of the restricted zone, don’t they matter?  Read the material.  The restrictions you are calling for could only lead to clustering of offenders in that area.  It would also lead to homelessness and transience.  That is NOT a good thing.  

A responsible person will look not only for the immediate gratification of an action, but will also look at all the unintended consequences of that action.  

We would love to be able to eat cake but our future health dictates that we must also eat our vegetables.  Life sometimes requires us to think about the FUTURE.

There is research and VALUABLE EXPERIENCE to consider before making a decision to institute residency restrictions.

Simply by the questions he presents it is obvious that Alderman Pietrowski has done his homework.  Sex Offenders are very different.  A man with a stranger boy victim is MUCH more likely to re-offend than other types of offenders.  In providing for the protection of my family I would want to know that information.  Or is it just that it is much easier to make a blanket statement that includes every offender?  Lack of education on a subject and making blanket statements are the macadam of hate and prejudice.  

“Jerry Bubb responded to Pietrowski’s comments saying, “People have rights, but I’d rather let a murderer go free before a predator” because the murderer can be rehabilitated whereas the predator can’t.”

Can any thinking person defend a statement like that?  

” She also said tonight that restrictive ordinances can make matters worse. Where did she read that? On my blog, in comments made by sex offender sympathizers from out of state. Ask parents of children how these ordinances can “make matters worse,” and see what they have to say.”

Mr. Fischer would like us  to think that Greenfield has its own TRUTH and that the experience of other cities and states, and the results of research done by the Federal, State and Professional researchers are not true in Greenfield.  Some people say that TRUTH is relative.  That what is true for one person may not be true in another person’s opinion.  That is correct in some instances but there are many things that are just plain truth.  I say that 2+2=4.  That is true in Florida, Maine, California, and in Greenfield!  Mr. Fischer can say this is not so, but that does not make him right.  Where the truth comes from is not germane to the issue.  

I do not say, this is my opinion and you must believe it.  I do not call people that I do not know names and try to dismiss what they are saying by calling them “sex offender sympathizers” and other derogatory names.  I simply provide you will evidence and pray that you will educate yourselves and not make the same mistakes other’s have made and have regretted.  

Striving to make laws based on fact and evidence, laws that are effective is not being “SOFT” on anyone.  It is being smart!  It is putting away our preconceived notions and correcting long held errors in our thinking.  It is putting our children’s safety FIRST and our desires for immediate gratification and prejudices LAST!  It is not always easy to take that “road less traveled”.  It takes courage to stand up against something that is WRONG but that is also popular.  

Mr. Fischer, can you tell me how telling a former sex offender  that he cannot lay his head to  sleep at night within a certain amount of feet from a park or daycare or school is going to protect children who are ALSO at home in bed during that time?  Please explain that to me…   residency restrictions tell an offender where he can and cannot sleep.  PERIOD!

I will include a few studies here for education purposes.  

Center for Sex Offender Management A Project of the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs

www.csom.org/.../reentry_brief.pdf

www.dc.state.ks.us/.../sex-offender-housing-restrictions   Kansas Department of Corrections  Sex Offender housing Restricitons

www.atsa.com/.../AmicusBr-Prop83.pdf  

www.naesv.org/.../communitymanagementofconvictedoffenders.html

National Alliance to End Sexual Violence  See #3 Residency Restrictions

hrw.org/.../1.htm  Residency Restrictions

www.ccoso.org/.../Eliminate%20Residency%20Restricitons%20for%20Sex%20Offenders.pdf  

www.nacdl.org/.../SexOffender_attachments$FILE/Lev_Hern.pdf

Sex Offender Residence Restrictions: Unintended Consequences and Community Reentry

theparson.net/.../Levenson.pdf   Sex offender residency restrictions: Dr. Jill Levenson

www.iowanasw.org/.../2008%20Sex%20Offender%20Restrictions.pdf

NASW Iowa Chapter

www.nacdl.org/.../sexoffender_attachments$FILE/Levenson-1000feet_rule.pdf  The impact of Sex Offender Residency Restrictions; 1000 ft. from Danger or one step from Absurd

September 17, 2008 8:38 AM

Arika   

If folks believe only "sex offender sympathizers" say residency ordanices make things worse, those folks are also--in their ignorance--calling the mother of a kidnapped child, Patty Wetterling, a "sex offender sympathizer."  She has said from the start that they don't work.  

You see, she wants so badly to prevent another family from enduring her nightmare, that she actually placed research and truth above how she "feeeeels."  Thus she advocates prevention programs rather than silly restrictions that only kick in AFTER an offender has victimized someone, been caught, been convicted, served time, and been released back into the community.

September 17, 2008 11:29 AM

Kevin Fischer   

The concept of treatment for sex offenders is not all that effective.

We are failing in the way we handle sex offenders.

That’s why it’s imperative we know where they are and keep them safely away from children.

www.nytimes.com/.../04civil.html

www.nytimes.com/.../05civil.html

www.nytimes.com/.../06civil.html

September 17, 2008 12:57 PM

Magister   

I can present you with multiple studies that show that treatment IS effective.  Treatment for sex offenders has been refined over the last 10 years.  The cognitive treatment that is used now has been found to be between 40% and 90% effective.  No, it is not 100%.  I can 't think of much in life that is.  As I have stated before, different types of sex offenders have different re- offence or risk rates.  That is why the Alderman who asked about the victim had it right...it DOES make a difference.

Talking about Civil Commitment, there are some people who NEED to be locked away.  There are some crazy, incorrigible people out there...sex offenders and non sex offenders.  The problem with our civil commitment is that the politicians have used it to wharehouse men.  Just like anything else a politician can screw up (sorry guys but its true) civil commitment is one of those things. Not many people get out of CC because they are not intended to.  Look at the State of Florida.  The politicians there came right out and said they did not intend to release those men.  Then the budget crisis came and low and behold, some of the men got all better!

It is not true that treatment does not work.  The already low general re-offense rate is reduced at least 40% with treatment.  That is the FIRST thing I would want to know about an offender living near me.  Did he have treatment, how much, and how did he do in treatment.  

I agree 100% that we are failing in the way we handle sex offenders.  That is exactly what I have been saying.

We do just the opposite of what the experts tell us these people need and shove them to the edges of society, completely dehumanizing them and their families.  We take away any dignity they can muster, we take away the hope for a future, jobs and homes.  It isn't bad enough that we make them social pariahs but we take away what Maslov would call their basic human needs.  Since I have been studying this subject, I have been amazed that there has not been an increase in re-offense.  Most of these men are very ashamed of what they have done and will never do it again.  Now, Mr. Fischer, I said most, not ALL! LOL

We MUST listen to the experts and follow common sense if we ever want to make a dent in protecting our children from this terrible crime.  Our children deserve for us to go beyond our normal impulses.  Have you ever heard of CoSa?  It was founded in Canada and has spread to England, Australia, and others.  There is even a CoSa or two in the US.  IT stands for Circles of Support and Accountability.  Google it.  Dr. Robin Wilson had a big hand in it in Canada.  Now THAT is something positive we can do.  It has had a large impact in recidivism.  SO take a high risk offender that is in the neighborhood, or better yet one you know WILL be coming to your neighborhood, and start a CoSa group.  THAT is putting your time and energy where your mouth is.  THAT is being proactive instead of reactive.  Have community meetings to TEACH parents and teens about saftey.  Teach them programs like STOP IT NOW's that give us warning signs red light, yellow light and green light.  These programs to not single out a group of people but teach warning signs that you may see in Uncle Joe, the Baseball coach, the Assistant Pastor...THAT is being Proactive instead of REACTIVE.  We want to PREVENT this horrible crime.  

September 17, 2008 5:50 PM

Kevin Fischer   

Lizzie, your comment submitted this afternoon is not being posted.

You said that I should stop lying.

I don't lie and regular readers know I hate when the uninitiated say that.

Thus, your comment won't appear here.

September 17, 2008 9:03 PM

Magister   

Mr. Fischer,

You also mentioned the importance of knowing where sex offenders are.  The response to forcing offenders from their homes and apartments and making housing difficult if not impossible to find is transient or absconded offenders....another "more harm than good" consequence.

This was a huge problem with Iowa, but it happens elsewhere too.  Did you check out CoSa?  Transitional facilities are a great idea too.  There are some who provide treatment right there in the facility with other life skills, drug and alcohol counseling, parole officers love it because they can manage their guys so much easier which gives them more time.  I have heard of some facilites giving the parole officer an office there.  Also the local Law Enforcement is in and out frequently.

Those men with high risk need to be monitored more closely than no risk, low risk offenders.  The longer an offender has been offense free, the less likely he is to offend again.  There are so many better ways to truly increase safety in the city than doing something that has so many unintended consequences.  We have not even gone into any detail about the fact that Sex Offender treatment professionals say all the added stress of having to move, not being able to find a job or a home increases the risk of re-offense.  

I always wonder how many times and in how many ways does someone need to call you a monster and treat you as non human, say you will re-offend, that you "have" to, before you buy into that message and become that monster.  Thank God, it seems that a persons basic humanity, even after they have committed a terrible crime, prevents that sort of acting out except on rare occasions.

Am I wrong, or are we starting to have more of a dialogue and less name calling?  I hope that is true, for your city and for the children of your city.  There ARE proactive things that can be done.  You just have to care enough to take the initiative.

September 17, 2008 9:25 PM

The Dragon   

Kevin,  the NY Times article you mentioned states that "About 2,700 pedophiles, rapists and other sexual offenders are already being held indefinitely, mostly in special treatment centers, under so-called civil commitment programs in 19 states, ..." Considering that there are somewhere in the vicinity of 600,000 registered sex offender in the country that's a long way from being "not all that effective".  The remaining 597,000 are on the streets, working like you, paying taxes like you and just trying to 'get along' like you.  In fact that's all we're asking for, we've done our time, learned our lesson, gotten off paper (parole / probation) and now want to get back to trying to live just like you.

I have to agree with Magister that there are some people who need to be locked away - and there are some SO's among that group.  There are some who will re-offend ((Look at OJ, implicated in the murder of his ex-wife, just getting along like we all want to, and then basically holds up people who have some of his past trophies)) Regrettably we can't predict who will re-offend - there is no magic ball - but we can't keep everyone who has ever committed a crime in prison forever just because they might do it again.  If we do where do we stop, SO's - okay, murderers - okay, drug dealers - okay, bank robbers - okay, speeding tickets - sure, why not?

September 18, 2008 6:57 AM

MSLGW   

Who commits more sex crimes after being released from prison? A NON-sex offender or a sex offender. Well, hang onto your socks. NON sex offenders by 5 to 1. Accirding to U.S. Department of Justice.

Read, "Revisiting Department of Justice Recidivism Statistics and More Shocking Truths." Here:

cfcoklahoma.org/index.php

September 18, 2008 7:47 AM

MSLGW   

In my first post I said non sex offenders released from prison committed more sex crimes than sex offenders by a 4 to 1, that way incorrect. It is 5 to 1.

I once believed like most people and was reactionary in my thinking. However, after looking at studies and understanding the issues, I realized that, "ONCE TRUTH IS ACKNOWLEDGED, IT CANNOT BE DENIED AND IF I DENY IT, I CANNOT BE TRUE TO MYSELF.

September 18, 2008 7:57 AM

MSLGW   

States will spend millions for passing the AWA which is "doing more harm than good."

Legislators need to consult the EXPERTS rather than pass knee jerk legislation that actually endangers children and the whole of society. I encourage everyone to write their law makers demanding they stop endangering children with knee jerk legislation and BRING IN THE EXPERTS.

"Maine is one of the few states that is going about this correctly. They are "LISTENING TO EXPERTS, rather than passing emotional knee jerk legislation which protects no one but endangers everyone. The vast majority of states have passed laws that "Do more harm than good."

Protecting children and society must be done "intelligently."

Here is a short "audio clip" referencing the issue in Maine.

"Effectiveness of Sex Offender Registries Explored By Legislators-LISTEN"

Listen here:

www.cfcoklahoma.org."

--

Once truth is acknowledged, you cannot  deny it and remain true to yourself.

www.cfcoklahoma.org

October 1, 2008 2:28 PM

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